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DC Database talk:Naming Conventions

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Ongoing discussions regarding possible page moves

List of ongoing discussions regarding possible or required page moves. Add to list if there is something missing.

The Clever Guy (Talk • Contribs • E-Mail) 13:55, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Legion of Super-Heroes, alternate futures, etc.

For those who doesn't know, the Legion of Super-Heroes lives about 1000 years in the future, and it's timelines are highly affected by crises (for example Crisis on Infinite Earths, Zero Hour and Infinite Crisis). That makes them extra complicated to follow the naming conventions. There are a discussion going on at the Legion of Super-Heroes talk page about it's naming conventions, which the most important parts is reposted here:

1st suggestion by Brian Kurtz

  • Code name by itself - redirects to disambig page, except in the case where the character in question is exclusive to only one reality. If different versions of this character exist, then the current version should be named "Name (Modern)".
  • Code name followed by real name in parenthesis - should be used for the character as they are currently seen today. All modern versions of the LSH should have page names that follow this format.
  • Code name followed by (Pre-Zero Hour) - indicates all "classic" LSH members. The hero name should reflect the last alias used by the character prior to reboot; example Light Lass vs. Lightning Lass. Also, all other name changes such as Imra Ardeen to Imra Ardeen Rannz should redirect to Saturn Girl (Pre-Zero Hour).
  • Code name followed by (Post-Zero Hour) - indicates all LSH members that appear after Legion of Super-Heroes (1989 series) #61 and Legionnaires #18; The only exceptions should be characters who went by a code name different from that of their Pre-Zero Hour incarnation, ala Chameleon Boy became Chameleon etc.

2nd suggestion by The Clever Guy

  • Real name followed by universe in parenthesis - the page's title.
  • Code name by itself' - is a disambiguation page, containing all incarnations of the particular character. OR redirects to the only character with that code name (or, if the characters real name is unknown, is the title of the page).
  • Code name followed by real name in parenthesis - redirects to the character's current or latest incarnation.
  • Real name followed by (Pre-Zero Hour/Pre-ZH) - indicates all "classic" LSH members.
    • Code name followed by (Pre-Zero Hour/Pre-ZH) - redirects to the pre-Zero Hour character's page. This is because 1) the naming conventions look like that, and 2) most of the characters from Glorithverse did not use a code name at the time.
  • Real name followed by (Post-Zero Hour/Post-ZH) - indicates all LSH members that appear after Legion of Super-Heroes (1989 series) #61 and Legionnaires #18.
    • Code name followed by (Post-Zero Hour/Post-ZH) - redirects to character page.
  • Pre-Zero Hour/Post-Zero Hour vs. Pre-ZH/Post-ZH - let people vote for this.
  • Real name followed by (Modern Age/Post-Infinite Crisis/New Earth) - indicates the current incarnation of the "Legionverse".
    • Code name followed by (Modern Age/Post-Infinite Crisis/New Earth) - redirects to the character's page.
  • Modern Age vs. Post-Infinite Crisis and New Earth - also a thing to vote about, although New Earth may not be a good thing, because I don't think DC Comics have confirmed which reality the current Legion belongs to.

Other ideas/suggestions? The Clever Guy (Talk • Contribs • E-Mail) 16:02, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

I vote against Modern Age for the designation for the most recent reboot, since, if Modern Age is taken to be anything post-1985, that would cover all 3 Legion incarnations! As for New Earth v. Post-IC, you're right that we really don't know yet. The Lightning Saga further mucked up matters by implying that the New Earth Supes was in the Pre-ZH Legion! --Profzoom 18:24, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
I vote for Post-IC for the most recent revamp! That's because I think they're more qualified with that designation than the pre-ZH Legion, even if they've appeared in the Lightning Saga! Also worth noting is that those different Legions may coexist due to the new multiverse (who knows, both Legions may come from New Earth continuity, has there been any confirmation from DC that the multiverse won't expand due to alternate futures?). But now I'm going to wonder if the Glorithverse characters are gonna have separate articles, or if they are just on a separate section at the pre-ZH article as a possible future for the Legionnaires. The more I think about it, the more complicated it becomes. (But I also wonder why the Glorithverse characters couldn't be at the same pre-ZH article. Maybe I'm just exaggerating the situation with the Glorithverse.) Hope that made any sense. The Clever Guy (Talk • Contribs • E-Mail) 18:51, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
Now I'm beginning to think that *Character name (New Earth)" is a possibility for characters from the most recent revamp of Mark Waid and Barry Kitson. That's because, that Legionverse must be at least one of New Earth's futures. Mon-El was put in the Phantom Zone in the present, and appeared in the current Legion continuity. The Clever Guy (Talk • Contribs • E-Mail) 07:52, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
Yeah... that's pretty good. Definitely a possibility. --Brian Kurtz 11:07, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
Sorry Brian, could you be a little more specific? The Clever Guy (Talk • Contribs • E-Mail) 12:06, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Naming convention hiccups

As noted in Naming Convention by-laws section 5, addendum B, past-participle G12, the preferred naming convention for characters is to use the character's formal real name followed by the reality designation in parenthesis, ie "Richard Grayson (New Earth)" as opposed to Dick Grayson, etc. While this is ideal for most characters, it does pose a problem in some areas.

Multiple Characters with the same name

There are some characters from the same reality who share the same name. For instance, Golden Age Earth-S has four characters named William Batson (Captain Marvel and the three Lieutenant Marvels). There are also two Harold Jordans, two Bartholomew Allens, two Vril Dox's, so on and so forth. In such a case, I would recommend deferring to the more commonly used name to differentiate between some characters. Bart and Barry, Harold and Hal, Harold and Kumar.

On some characters, a number could be used: "Vril Dox II (New Earth)". But as I said, that only applies to some characters. The Clever Guy (Talk • Contribs • E-Mail) 13:06, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
I agree. And yes, this formula should be used very sparingly. The preceding unsigned comment was added by Brian Kurtz (talk • contribs).


Suggestions about multiple characters with the same name:

Thoughts? The Clever Guy (Talk • Contribs • E-Mail) 19:02, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Characters with only one name

I think we're safe with calling Aquaman "Orin (New Earth)", as Orin is such a weird name, but I'm not sure how to handle some of the others such as Aqualad and Wonder Woman. Garth and Diana are pretty common names, and I don't think it would be wise to call them "Garth (New Earth)" or "Diana (New Earth)". I guess we could call Wonder Woman "Princess Diana (New Earth)", but I'm not sure.

I think Tempest/Aqualad could be placed under "Garth (New Earth)", with the condition that "Garth" is put in a distinguish tag. Alternatively, "Garth of Atlantis (New Earth)" might be used.
Wonder Woman is more tricky than that. Both Earth-Two and Earth-One versions have their real names listed as "Diana Trevor", which would solve their naming problems (as I'd not like "Princess" being in a page title, as a princess may become a queen someday). As the modern Wonder Woman is not married, her real name is simply "Diana". I believe "Diana of Themyscira (New Earth)" could be used in this case. Even though they are just different versions of the same concept, they don't necessarily have to have the same standard for page titles. It's the same for Princess Projectra. Sensor is, even though they are different on so many levels, the post-Zero Hour version of Projectra (I believe that similar differences may appear with Earth-26). The Clever Guy (Talk • Contribs • E-Mail) 19:07, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
Heh. Leave it to me to fail to read updates on topics I posted in. I am so terrible when it comes to that. So yeah... upon further reflection, I think that (in the case of Wonder Woman) that Diana of Themyscira (New Earth) would probably be the best and most stable page name for the character. If there are no objections, I'll move the page, and fix the redirects. I'll ask Jamie to whip up a bot to take care of the appearances category. Sound good, guys? --Brian Kurtz 21:25, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
Sounds good to me (...as it was my idea...). The Clever Guy (Talk • Contribs • E-Mail) 05:47, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
generally I agree as that is precise enough, but what about when the character time travels and meets a reliable time counterpart to themselves and not a completely seperate being say a dimensional counterpart? Do we name the entry to a different time entity such as the recent meetup of the Titans versus "Titans of the future" being for say [Cassandra Sandsmark (New Earth)] against [Cassandra Sandsmark (New Earth future)]?
or should we distinguish by that specific story-arc [Cassandra Sandsmark (New Earth)] against [Cassandra Sandsmark (Titans Tommorow)]?
Kal_l_fan 03:05, 7 December 2007
In cases such as the one you specified, I would go with a simple descriptive that denotes the time era or storyline, ala Cassandra Sandsmark (Titans Tomorrow). --Brian Kurtz 13:10, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
For Wonder Woman, her "real name" is Diana, right? The Earth-One and Two versions should really be "Diana of Paradise Island (Earth-One)" and "Diana of Paradise Island (Earth-Two)" - I don't think we're supposed to use married names as real names (check out Sue Storm on MDP). The current WW is "Diana of Them-is-whatever (New Earth)". Of course, their only significant alias(es) is "Wonder Woman", so on the WW disambig page, you'd show them as WW of Earth-whatever.
Looking at Wikipedia entries on real people (like Aristotle or Alexander the Great), their names are just "Aristotle", not "Aristotle of Greece" or anything. Whereas "Prince Charles" is listed as "Charles, Prince of Wales", but, as you say, titles change. I'd go with "Diana of wherever (Earth-whatever) personally.
--Roygbiv666 14:02, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
I think the rule to not use married names only apply when the character already has/had a surname, like Sue Storm. Diana of E-1 and E-2 have no such surname except "Trevor" (unless you count "Prince", but that's an alias). Do whatever you want, as long it's good. I wouldn't really complain if you have either "Diana Trevor" or "Diana of Paradise Island" . Both are cool to me. (I though "demand" "Diana of Themyscira (New Earth)"; but I hope and think that wouldn't be hard for anyone.) Thoughts?! The Clever Guy (Talk • Contribs • E-Mail) 16:36, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
So we're all agreed on "Diana of Themyscira (New Earth)"? Cool. That one can be moved. For the E-1, and E-2 versions, I recommend going with "Diana of Paradise Island (Earth-One)". Yeah, it's a little clumsy, but I'd like to keep some symmetry with the WW names. Also, the Earth-One Wonder Woman was only married to Steve Trevor for the span of a single issue. I don't think that's enough to really justify naming her Diana Trevor. Agreed? --Brian Kurtz 17:35, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
I think so. I didn't write "Do whatever you want, as long it's good." for nothing. The Clever Guy (Talk • Contribs • E-Mail) 17:43, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Name confirmation and spelling

There is also the issue of confirmation of a character's true birth name. The first name Ted can be used as a shortened form for both Theodore and Edward. Unless we know for a fact what a character's birth name is, we should just stick with using Ted. The same also holds true for characters named Jack. Jack might be a character's true name, or it might be a shortened form of Jonathan or even Jacob in some cases. Some formal names also carry multiple spellings. The formal term for Fred is spelled both Frederick and Fredrick. For the sake of accuracy, if we don't know the correct full name or spelling, I think we should defer to the common name.

Reality Designation

Ideally, I think all characters should have a reality designation listed in parenthesis after their name. In most cases, this will be either (Earth-One), (Earth-Two), (Pre-Zero Hour) or (New Earth). Even obscure characters who will likely never be seen in an alternate reality (like Perry White's son Jerry) should have this tag included in their name.

Vertigo Characters

With the exception of characters who are part of the DCU proper, I think all Vertigo characters should simply be listed under their normal name. Most Vertigo stories are inclusive to their own reality and are set apart even from other Vertigo stories, and they do not have a reality designation.

If the pagename doesn't include "(Vertigo)" or "(Earth-Vertigo)", then they must be under "Category:Vertigo" or "Category:Vertigo Characters" or something. As long as they can be grouped together in some manner (See also Earth-ABC or America's Best Comics).
--Roygbiv666 14:49, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Gestalt Characters

Not really sure how to handle categorizing gestalt characters such as Firestorm and the Spectre.

Thoughts? Opinions? Haikus? --Brian Kurtz 13:01, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, that's a tricky one - what is the entry on: person 1, person 2, or the combined? Mostly those type of characters are only featured because they have superpowers. Would there be much info Dr. Martin Stein if he wasn't also Firestorm? Or Ronnie Raymond (yes, I'm stuck in the 1970's, sue me). I'll think about it and chime in at some point.
--Roygbiv666 01:03, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

Character Appearances Category

As I'm sure you all noticed, I've been updating comic issue pages to coincide with the naming conventions, even if the character pagenames haven't been moved yet. For now, I've been sub-categorizing the new category name under the existing one. Kal-El (New Earth) sub-cats to Superman (New Earth) and so on. The older category page will eventually be deleted, but for now, I think it helps to determine which issues need to be updated still.

Character parent categories

Another thing that I've been doing, and this differs from how they do it at the MDP, is that I've been sub-categorizing all character appearance categories to a parent category. For instance, all characters who have ever gone by the name of Superman are sub-categorized under Category:Superman/Appearances. I think this will help keep the Category:Character Appearances page looking sleeker, and more user-friendly. Some characters will be sub-categorized to multiple parent categories. Hal Jordan for example, is sub-catted to Category:Green Lantern/Appearances, Category:Harold Jordan/Appearances, Category:Spectre/Appearances, Category:Parallax/Appearances. In some cases, a parent category may need to be created for a character's real name, especially if that character has gone by alternating code names in the past. --Brian Kurtz 13:28, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

This is pretty good. Do you think we can move the "mother"-page when the appearance category is fixed? Because, it's mostly the appearance category that prevents people from moving pages freely. I'm having Kal-El (New Earth)/Superman (New Earth) when I'm saying that. (Actually, Ive already taken this liberty some times, with the condition that the appearance category is fixed before the move or just after.) The Clever Guy (Talk • Contribs • E-Mail) 14:10, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
Yeah, a lot of the older appearance category place holders can be deleted, once everything is moved, streamlined and sorted out. Once I'm done re-allocating cast values in comic pages, a lot of them will just be empty, but we'll keep them up until the actual character pages are moved so as to avoid creating more red-links. --Brian Kurtz 14:47, 3 November 2007 (UTC)


Vertigo characters

So... best way to rename Vertigo characters? Should we name them using a simple "Vertigo" descriptor, or name them after their respective series? Obviously, this doesn't apply to canon characters such as Constantine or Swampy.

Example:
Phillip Graves (Vertigo)

or...

Phillip Graves (100 Bullets)

--Brian Kurtz 14:46, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Do Vertigo characters generally share the same Universe, or are they on their own by series, or a mishmash of both? Maybe the "Name (Title)" approach would be best. What did you do for "Y:The Last Man" characters? --Roygbiv666 14:59, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Even though I didn't reply to this yet, I kinda took your suggestion and started naming them Character (Title), ala Cole Burns (100 Bullets). With Y, I just started naming them Earth-Y, which may or may not have been the best approach, but it takes too damn long to type out "Y the Last Man" for every character page. Hopefully DC won't churn out their own Earth-Y during Final Crisis, or else I'll really be pissed. To answer your question though... most Vertigo titles exist separately from one another. The only ones that are part of a shared continuity, are those that are also part of the mainstream DCU. --Brian Kurtz 21:46, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

Milestone Comics - the "Dakotaverse"

According to Wikipedia, the Milestone universe is called the "Dakotaverse". Since DC does not license these characters any longer, and they are not legally DC Comics properties, I think its safe to assume that they will not be part of the 52 Multiverse. In lieu of that, I suppose "Character (Dakotaverse)" is probably the best naming convention for all Milestone characters. --Brian Kurtz 16:18, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

DC_Database:Naming_Conventions#Comics_Section

yeah, didn't we abandon this as, well, stupid?

Roygbiv666 16:46, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
Updated and clarified. :)
— Nathan (Peteparker) (Earth-1218) (talk • contribs • email) 17:16, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
Are the Naming Conventions done being revised? I other words, can the notices here, on the move templates, and wherever else they appear be removed yet? The Paradox 00:31, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
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